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concealed carry badge for the BOP

This is a discussion on concealed carry badge for the BOP within the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act forums, part of the Information and Knowledge Base category; To me, the purpose is to let an approaching Police Officer, or other LEO, know that this person being approached ...

  1. #261
    ddgala's Avatar
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    Re: concealed carry badge for the BOP

    To me, the purpose is to let an approaching Police Officer, or other LEO, know that this person being approached may be a good guy (no one, and I mean no one here, would expect an LEO to let his/her guard down during such an approach, only to lighten-up a bit on the trigger), and upon placing the approached retiree in a position that provides safety to the LEO, to demand ID at this point.

    We all understand that we are human (anyone disagree with this point?) and mistakes are made. We also understand that an Officer who overreacts can cause the death of another. When a firearm is seen, there is a possibility of being shot by accident and this is, invariably, more possible than not if the Officer is not trained as well as others. We can also admit that not all LEOs are trained equally, which is another topic and another problem.

    For example, keep in mind that active LEOs with NYPD have been shot in the past and most were killed, by accident. These Officers are believed to be well trained.

    With this last scenario in mind, what can we do to lessen the possibility of an armed retired LEO being shot prematurely by an active LEO?

    I don't know about the reader, but being shot by accident gives me little solace. Think about it for a moment. You have been an LEO for 20 to 30 years, you retire, and while lawfully carrying a firearm with you in one of the many dangerous cities in the USA, an active LEO sees what appears to be a firearm. This active LEO approaches you with gun drawn and screams at you to stop, and while you ask, "excuse me?" (such a question does happen) the officer (who is already nervous), shoots you. O'Yeah, this is going to make me feel better knowing that this was an accident.

    In the alternative, while facing the active LEO the presence of what appears to be a badge is showing, and he or she eases their trigger finger from the trigger. This finger is not removed from the trigger, it is merely eased away.

    Which scenario would you like to be part of here? This is where a LEOSA badge may help. However, my desire is that there be one type of badge that can be identified throughout the U.S. and only obtained by retired LEOs.

    This is no guarantee that this could not end-up in the hands of others. Keep in mind the person who was selling badges in Florida. One of these items was a centennial badge for the St. Louis Police Department, and the badge had not even been released when this crime was discovered.

    This is a difficult issue, because you have people who believe that this is weird after a person retires. We all know how well a person is trained in our agency, but you may not be comforted if you knew about how other LEOs have been trained. They still have a difficult job, and I do not take this way from them, but the training may not be what some of us would think is adequate to prepare them for in more intense places or situations.

    Now, could these scenarios be applied to the active LEO with the FBOP? Absolutely!

    Having worked with a police department, I can say that it is important for anyone in this situation (1) not to make any sudden moves, (2) listen and fully comply with the commands of the Police Officer, (3) tell him/her that you are an LEO, (4) and be courteous toward the Police Officer. Keep in mind that his/her adrenalin is running fast and there is obvious and understandable fear involved here. They are just doing their job, so don't make it any more difficult than it already is.

    Ninety-nine percent of the time we deal with inmates, and you know how it is when they make our job more difficult. Since we are also the good guys, we should act accordingly.

    What happens if an Officer abuses you physically during your compliance? Go with the flow, keep your mouth shut, report the abuse to your Warden and go from there. There are good an bad in anyone's house, and we should never tolerate the bad, although there is a time and place for everything, and while being searched this is not the right time to protest.... This is an important rule.

    Again, active LEOs with the BOP may be at a greater risk for a problem to occur, because the BOP does not want you to have anything, although I question whether a LEOSA badge, which indicates that it is a LEOSA badge would be a violation. This may need to be addressed between the Union and the Agency Executives and General Counsel for a more clear policy on this subject. In most departments, and states, there have been policies established that only address the application of LEOSA. In fact, if you checkout the Attorney General's Office of the State of Hawaii (bottom right hand corner), you will see that he is actually in the process of revising his opinion.

    The FBOPs needs such an opinion, and the opinion must abide by law and not some personal feeling. No one cares about one's personal opinion, only the facts Madam.

    Any other thoughts on this subject?

  2. #262
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    Re: concealed carry badge for the BOP

    Quote Originally Posted by ddgala View Post
    To me, the purpose is to let an approaching Police Officer, or other LEO, know that this person being approached may be a good guy (no one, and I mean no one here, would expect an LEO to let his/her guard down during such an approach, only to lighten-up a bit on the trigger), and upon placing the approached retiree in a position that provides safety to the LEO, to demand ID at this point.

    We all understand that we are human (anyone disagree with this point?) and mistakes are made. We also understand that an Officer who overreacts can cause the death of another. When a firearm is seen, there is a possibility of being shot by accident and this is, invariably, more possible than not if the Officer is not trained as well as others. We can also admit that not all LEOs are trained equally, which is another topic and another problem.

    For example, keep in mind that active LEOs with NYPD have been shot in the past and most were killed, by accident. These Officers are believed to be well trained.

    With this last scenario in mind, what can we do to lessen the possibility of an armed retired LEO being shot prematurely by an active LEO?

    I don't know about the reader, but being shot by accident gives me little solace. Think about it for a moment. You have been an LEO for 20 to 30 years, you retire, and while lawfully carrying a firearm with you in one of the many dangerous cities in the USA, an active LEO sees what appears to be a firearm. This active LEO approaches you with gun drawn and screams at you to stop, and while you ask, "excuse me?" (such a question does happen) the officer (who is already nervous), shoots you. O'Yeah, this is going to make me feel better knowing that this was an accident.

    In the alternative, while facing the active LEO the presence of what appears to be a badge is showing, and he or she eases their trigger finger from the trigger. This finger is not removed from the trigger, it is merely eased away.

    Which scenario would you like to be part of here? This is where a LEOSA badge may help. However, my desire is that there be one type of badge that can be identified throughout the U.S. and only obtained by retired LEOs.

    This is no guarantee that this could not end-up in the hands of others. Keep in mind the person who was selling badges in Florida. One of these items was a centennial badge for the St. Louis Police Department, and the badge had not even been released when this crime was discovered.

    This is a difficult issue, because you have people who believe that this is weird after a person retires. We all know how well a person is trained in our agency, but you may not be comforted if you knew about how other LEOs have been trained. They still have a difficult job, and I do not take this way from them, but the training may not be what some of us would think is adequate to prepare them for in more intense places or situations.

    Now, could these scenarios be applied to the active LEO with the FBOP? Absolutely!

    Having worked with a police department, I can say that it is important for anyone in this situation (1) not to make any sudden moves, (2) listen and fully comply with the commands of the Police Officer, (3) tell him/her that you are an LEO, (4) and be courteous toward the Police Officer. Keep in mind that his/her adrenalin is running fast and there is obvious and understandable fear involved here. They are just doing their job, so don't make it any more difficult than it already is.

    Ninety-nine percent of the time we deal with inmates, and you know how it is when they make our job more difficult. Since we are also the good guys, we should act accordingly.

    What happens if an Officer abuses you physically during your compliance? Go with the flow, keep your mouth shut, report the abuse to your Warden and go from there. There are good an bad in anyone's house, and we should never tolerate the bad, although there is a time and place for everything, and while being searched this is not the right time to protest.... This is an important rule.

    Again, active LEOs with the BOP may be at a greater risk for a problem to occur, because the BOP does not want you to have anything, although I question whether a LEOSA badge, which indicates that it is a LEOSA badge would be a violation. This may need to be addressed between the Union and the Agency Executives and General Counsel for a more clear policy on this subject. In most departments, and states, there have been policies established that only address the application of LEOSA. In fact, if you checkout the Attorney General's Office of the State of Hawaii (bottom right hand corner), you will see that he is actually in the process of revising his opinion.

    The FBOPs needs such an opinion, and the opinion must abide by law and not some personal feeling. No one cares about one's personal opinion, only the facts Madam.

    Any other thoughts on this subject?

    Wow. I fell asleep right about 90 minutes into this.
    If you are my supervisor reading this...I'm banging in tomorrow.

    "All posts made under this username are solely the opinion of the author (ME) and do not represent the opinion of my employer or any Federal, State, or local government agency and/or municipality. So get a grip and put on your big girl panties...'cuz if you suck at your job, I will probably tell you so.

  3. #263
    NEGOTIATOR's Avatar
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    Re: concealed carry badge for the BOP

    The employee club at my joint is selling badges that are exact replica's to the BOP issued badge. They don't look half bad and serve the purpose for us in NYC, where one must have a badge while carrying a firearm. (according to NYPD)

  4. #264
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    Re: concealed carry badge for the BOP

    Quote Originally Posted by NEGOTIATOR View Post
    The employee club at my joint is selling badges that are exact replica's to the BOP issued badge. They don't look half bad and serve the purpose for us in NYC, where one must have a badge while carrying a firearm. (according to NYPD)
    I know this is being done with wink-and-a-nod approval by the administration, but... WOW, that's a blatant violation!
    No disclosure needed: I'm now a private citizen, and free to speak my mind!

  5. #265
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    Re: concealed carry badge for the BOP

    What is the point of this?
    Opinions expressed in this forum are those of the author and do not represent the opinions of the Federal Bureau of Prisons or the Department of Justice. These are merely the author's views as a citizen.

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  6. #266
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    Re: concealed carry badge for the BOP

    Quote Originally Posted by NEGOTIATOR View Post
    The employee club at my joint is selling badges that are exact replica's to the BOP issued badge. They don't look half bad and serve the purpose for us in NYC, where one must have a badge while carrying a firearm. (according to NYPD)
    Just following up:

    PS 5500.12
    10/10/2003
    Chapter 7, Page 8

    Employee procurement or possession of unauthorized badges, either
    official or duplicated, is prohibited (see the Program Statement
    on Standards of Employee Conduct).


    And:

    PS 3420.09
    2/5/99
    Page 13

    17. CREDENTIALS.
    a. Employees may not obtain or use identification badges
    issued by other sources which give the appearance of being an
    official Bureau or law enforcement credential.
    No disclosure needed: I'm now a private citizen, and free to speak my mind!

  7. #267
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    Re: concealed carry badge for the BOP

    Quote Originally Posted by NEGOTIATOR View Post
    The employee club at my joint is selling badges that are exact replica's to the BOP issued badge. They don't look half bad and serve the purpose for us in NYC, where one must have a badge while carrying a firearm. (according to NYPD)
    Did you get the new wallet? It looks nice but if you look close enough, the shield looks like hard plastic.
    :stickman:
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  8. #268
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    Re: concealed carry badge for the BOP

    Can we get a pic?
    "Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of arms."

    --Aristotle


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  9. #269
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    Re: concealed carry badge for the BOP

    theres dirty cops, in almost all agencys, cops that have sworn an oath...
    there is no way to weed out every corrupt individual... but a job has to be done, and with pride. these agencys still have faith in their officers to do the job, and not abuse the powers they have been given. and occassionaly one will stray, and yes it makes the rest look bad.

    But here in the Bureau, that faith has never been bestowed. We are asked to take on a very challanging task, with little tools, and near nothing for training. We are told that we are in fact "Law Enforcement Officers" but it is a far cry to ever be treated as such. Only when one faulters is it thrown in our face that "Federal Law Enforcement should have..." (insert random ass chewing here)

    I learned a long time ago that if you treat a person like a child, they will most likely end up acting like one. Maybe if the BOP treated their Staff like LEOs... they might start acting like that... too

    just a thought.
    Do the right thing, because the wrong people are watching!

    Opinions expressed in this forum are those of the author and do not represent the opinions of the Federal Bureau of Prisons or the Department of Justice. These are merely the author's views as a citizen while enjoying his 1st amendment rights... At home he will enjoy his 2nd.

  10. #270
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    Re: concealed carry badge for the BOP

    Quote Originally Posted by NEGOTIATOR View Post
    The employee club at my joint is selling badges that are exact replica's to the BOP issued badge. They don't look half bad and serve the purpose for us in NYC, where one must have a badge while carrying a firearm. (according to NYPD)
    Is it like this one they have for family at Meyers?

    The views and opinions expressed by the author do not represent any group/organization/Department or entity other than the poster himself. It is also advised that the reader take note to the fact that the poster is in fact a certified idiot. Seriously this dumb dumb cannot and does not represent anyone or anything but his own dumb self.

 

 
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